64 replies to this topic

[Arcticfox9]

Since there are numerous threads regarding ECM on this site that have both high and low quality feedback, I have created a simple poll to try to see how the player base is divided on this topic.

The first option of the poll would require PGI to do a heavy investigation of the forums to try to develop an ECM solution that suits the community that plays MWO. This would be a time consuming implementation for research alone but may come up with a fit that best suits the majority of players that have a strong interest in the game.

The second option of the poll would have ECM operate as close to the Guardian ECM description as noted on Sarna.net and/or Table Top. While this might be the best starting place for ECM, it may not be the best solution since we all know that MWO and Table Top could never be properly compared in terms of gameplay.

The third option would have no changes to the current implementation of ECM. A majority poll on this option would indicate that ECM is fine and that there is a strong vocal minority against ECM at present.

The fourth option is self-explanatory,

*Topic Modified to allow feedback posts.

Edited by Arcticfox9, 15 January 2013 - 12:32 PM.

[Arcticfox9]

For my own position on this topic, I wouldn't remind a review of the current ECM against the Table Top rules. However, if ECM stays as it is, I would not have a problem with it. If this game is to develop into the style of gameplay that exists in Table Top, then players will need to adopt specialty roles.

To combat fast ECM mechs such as the Raven 3L, a group of players should try to determine which of their players is skilled at aiming and have them pilot a mech specialized in hunting down Raven 3Ls and other fast mechs. This does imply that players will have to have some kind of way to organize themselves. ie. a game / group / chat lobby system.

So my position is neutral between a review against Table Top, and players adjusting their gameplay style.

Edited by Arcticfox9, 15 January 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Start with the basics (TT) see how well it works. Then Modify as required to make it feel right in the MMO.

[Arcticfox9]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

Start with the basics (TT) see how well it works. Then Modify as required to make it feel right in the MMO.

To satisfy the core market that will actively look for this title, I am in agreement with you. A reset to Table Top is likely the best mutual ground to start from for a correction. MMO type modifications is where we could end up in a similar situation that we are in now. I would prefer to see a slow roll-out of MMO modifications rather than rapid changes with large scope.

[SmoothCriminal]

Still unclear what it actually does in TT. Sarna says it just disrupts NARC and Artemis, which no-one really uses anyhow.

[Arcticfox9]

SmoothCriminal, on 15 January 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Still unclear what it actually does in TT. Sarna says it just disrupts NARC and Artemis, which no-one really uses anyhow.

The Table Top rules are described in 2 - 3 prominent BattleTech guildes in print such as the "BattleTech Master Rules" or "Classic BattleTech Companion" with its expanded rule publications. A number of users have provided quotations regarding ECM from these book since they go into detail about how specific pieces of equipment are affected by ECM. ie. Streak SRMs will not achieve a lock while being jammed by ECM, but they will still launch as standard SRMs.

Sarna.net is a great general reference starting point. But it is not a substitute for the actual publications.

[Codejack]

I voted to remove it entirely since it has been such a game-ruining experience. They can put it back in later, hopefully after nerfing it into something reasonable, but it needs to go away for a while, first.

Arcticfox9, on 15 January 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

A number of users have provided quotations regarding ECM from these book since they go into detail about how specific pieces of equipment are affected by ECM. ie. Streak SRMs will not achieve a lock while being jammed by ECM, but they will still launch as standard SRMs.

Actually, that's only Angel ECM that prevented SSRMs from locking, and according to lore, AECM was never widely used and wasn't even put into development until 2 years after the current era of the game.

[Canis Arctos]

lock please there are so many threads about ECM allready.

[Bigamo]

i am waiting for ecm fix to give the game another try. but some designer think its ok... 83% of the people that care enough to post in the foruns seens to disagree.

By my part i am not playing cause of this stupid implementation and i lost all faith in PGI job after keep it this way for so long... its pretty super evident that people "designing" this game dont have a clue about anything game related.

[Arcticfox9]

Canis Arctos, on 15 January 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

lock please there are so many threads about ECM allready.

I think many people have vented heavily about ECM, comments about how it should work or how it is broken have been discussed in many ways. If we focus on the poll only, then the answer is simplified.

[Xigunder Blue]

Well, ECM is canon but the MWO version is also different for numerous obvious reasons. As it is now implemented I think it destroys many good 'roles' and tactics and pushes for close range brawling arena melee combat. Not much tactical or role there, just twitch skill.

Possibly they could leave ECM as is but simply restrict its effects to the mech carrying it. No AOE range. Also would recommend that there is no practical reason that SSRMs cant fire as simply SRMs if aiming at an ECM mech. ECM doesn't affect firing mechanism, only targeting data from launcher. Failing to get target follow data they should function simply as SRM (dumbfire)weapons, which they are. Failing to fire at all is a design flaw that no engineer or military weapons specialist would accept.

[Lykaon]

Been giving the ECM issue some serious thought as of late.I do not feel that ECM has been healthy for the game on a whole and should not persist in it's current form.

When ECM was released I did what a Beta player should do.I tested the crap out of it.I concluded it was probably to potent but waited to judge.A week later my predictions on the evolution of MWo came true.As of now I have not actually played in a match for nearly a week when I used to play almost daily.I became bored of the one trick ECM pony this game is becomming.
Light mech + ECM + Streak = best! and also dull.

My main issue with ECM is it makes a total mockery of the Information Warfare design pillar as described in the Developer diary #1 video.This one passive functioning equipment item dominates Information warfare to such a huge exstent that the gulf between skilled players and unskilled players has shot way up.
The differance is most evident when ECM impacts on PuGs who lack third party comms to compensate for ECM effectivley removing passive information gathering from their game.While premades can get by via comm use to relay information activley as opposed to passivley via targeting data displayed on the HUD.

ECM use has become mandatory as can be clearly seen by the average 8 man premade composition including no fewer than 5 ECM units.This has of course destroyed mech diversity and along with it pretty much executed another pillar of game design also mentioned in the Developer diary video 1.Role warfare has become another casualty of ECM.If 5 or 6 of your mechs must be ECM units that leaves very few options to express aspects of Role Warfare.As it is now we have 2 mechs Raven or Atlas and even then one varient of those two chassis see frequent use.

Since the compositions of 8 man premades have become predictable ECM wars of one sort or another participation in 8 v 8 matches is way down.This of course impacts upon another potential future pillar of MWo.

Community warfare.If the community is sick of the ECM game and doesn't fight frequently in organized battles then what will become of community warfare that is dependant upon premades fighting each other (as mentioned by Paul in the previously mentioned developer video).

So if this game is built upon four pillars.

Mech Warfare: mechs fighting mechs.And ECM has such a dominant role isn't this more akin to ECM vs ECM

Information warfare:Largley turned off my ECM. So this one is choking...

Role warfare: Atlas DDC or Raven 3L? we have two choices.This pillar is cracked.

Community Warfare: I fear is in danger of being stillborn.We havn't even peeked at this aspect of the game but already the premades are sick of the ECM vs ECM game.

These are my observations and I don't think I'm alone in thinking ECM as it is currently implimented has far reaching and negativley impacting effects on the core functionality of MWo.

[Xyroc]

Or let the netcode get fixed and see if everyone is still mad after they can kill the ravens with ECM anyways =D

[Arcticfox9]

Lykaon, on 15 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Been giving the ECM issue some serious thought as of late.I do not feel that ECM has been healthy for the game on a whole and should not persist in it's current form.

When ECM was released I did what a Beta player should do.I tested the crap out of it.I concluded it was probably to potent but waited to judge.A week later my predictions on the evolution of MWo came true.As of now I have not actually played in a match for nearly a week when I used to play almost daily.I became bored of the one trick ECM pony this game is becomming.
Light mech + ECM + Streak = best! and also dull.

My main issue with ECM is it makes a total mockery of the Information Warfare design pillar as described in the Developer diary #1 video.This one passive functioning equipment item dominates Information warfare to such a huge exstent that the gulf between skilled players and unskilled players has shot way up.
The differance is most evident when ECM impacts on PuGs who lack third party comms to compensate for ECM effectivley removing passive information gathering from their game.While premades can get by via comm use to relay information activley as opposed to passivley via targeting data displayed on the HUD.

ECM use has become mandatory as can be clearly seen by the average 8 man premade composition including no fewer than 5 ECM units.This has of course destroyed mech diversity and along with it pretty much executed another pillar of game design also mentioned in the Developer diary video 1.Role warfare has become another casualty of ECM.If 5 or 6 of your mechs must be ECM units that leaves very few options to express aspects of Role Warfare.As it is now we have 2 mechs Raven or Atlas and even then one varient of those two chassis see frequent use.

Since the compositions of 8 man premades have become predictable ECM wars of one sort or another participation in 8 v 8 matches is way down.This of course impacts upon another potential future pillar of MWo.

Community warfare.If the community is sick of the ECM game and doesn't fight frequently in organized battles then what will become of community warfare that is dependant upon premades fighting each other (as mentioned by Paul in the previously mentioned developer video).

So if this game is built upon four pillars.

Mech Warfare: mechs fighting mechs.And ECM has such a dominant role isn't this more akin to ECM vs ECM

Information warfare:Largley turned off my ECM. So this one is choking...

Role warfare: Atlas DDC or Raven 3L? we have two choices.This pillar is cracked.

Community Warfare: I fear is in danger of being stillborn.We havn't even peeked at this aspect of the game but already the premades are sick of the ECM vs ECM game.

These are my observations and I don't think I'm alone in thinking ECM as it is currently implimented has far reaching and negativley impacting effects on the core functionality of MWo.

MMO implementations of the rules around ECM will be tricky because the gameplay dynamics (inclusive of organizational ability) are different for each player for a number of technical reasons. But in terms of the poll, which group does this place you in?

[Vassago Rain]

I like how it is now. I don't want them to touch it.
It accomplishes what it should do.

[SmoothCriminal]

Arcticfox9, on 15 January 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

The Table Top rules are described in 2 - 3 prominent BattleTech guildes in print such as the "BattleTech Master Rules" or "Classic BattleTech Companion" with its expanded rule publications. A number of users have provided quotations regarding ECM from these book since they go into detail about how specific pieces of equipment are affected by ECM. ie. Streak SRMs will not achieve a lock while being jammed by ECM, but they will still launch as standard SRMs.

Sarna.net is a great general reference starting point. But it is not a substitute for the actual publications.

Still no conclusive TT description of what ECM does! I'm really curious...

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Vassago Rain, on 15 January 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

I like how it is now. I don't want them to touch it.
It accomplishes what it should do.

Just out of curiosity, how so?

[GODzillaGSPB]

Only 12 Raven pilots cast their vote, yet.

[Arcticfox9]

As per Total Warfare Guide:


ECM suite
An ECM suite has an effect radius of six hexes that creates a “bubble” around the carrying unit. The ECM’s disruptive abilitiesaffect all enemy units inside this bubble, as well as any line of sight traced through the bubble. It has no effect on units friendly to the unit carrying the ECM.


Active Probe: Active probes cannot penetrate the ECM’s area of eff ect. The probing unit would notice that it is beingjammed, however.

Artemis IV FCS: ECM blocks the effects of Artemis IV fire control systems. Artemis-equipped launchers may be fired as normal missiles through the ECM, but they lose the Cluster Hits
Table bonus.

NARC Missile Beacon: Missiles equipped to home in on anattached Narc pod lose the Cluster Hits Table bonus for that system if the pods themselves lie within an ECM “bubble.” The Narc launcher itself (standard and iNarc) is not affected by ECM.

C3 and C3i Computer: ECM has the effect of “cutting off ” any C3-equipped unit from its network. If a C3 master unit is isolated from the network because it ventures inside the ECM radius, the entire portion of the network below it is eff ectively shut off. Only those C3 units able to draw an LOS to the master unit that does not pass through the ECM radius can access the network. If the master unit that connects the lances of a company lies inside the ECM effect radius, the link between the lances is lost, though each lance’s network functions normally (unless the ECM also interferes with them individually).

Note - There are notes about ECM in some equipment descriptions if they are affected by ECM.

[The Mecha Streisand]

Chose the first one. This is not TT, nor is it any other MW title from years past. This is its own game, and while it really ought to keep faith with the previous games and the lore, it also must be allowed to grow with the needs/wants of the community that plays it.

It has a place in the game. But that place is too big right now.

It has its role in the game. But that role is too powerful right now.

It is IN the game, however, but that game is in BETA right now.


RELEASE THE TROLLS!